Grakata Shouldn't Be A Primary....?

[SlightVect]

Well, being someone who loves the Cestra to death because of it's design and reload animation (Seriously, put reload speed on that, looks like a bartender kinda.)  The Grakata is in a really odd spot if you ask me, it's an obvious SMG style weapon yet we put it as a Rifle. It may just be me but it just doesn't sit right me, why does every secondary HAVE to be a pistol? Why can't there be SMG's? I mean sure, we have hand cannons in the form of the Brakk, traditional Deagles in the form of the Lex and Good ol' revolvers in the form of Vasto and Magnus. But what about the black sheep weapons?

Weapons such as the Cestra, Grakata and a few more should be moved around, still don't agree with me? Well, let me put some numbers down for you loyalists. 

 

Let's start from the top, base damage. The Grakata is literally called "the noobs Soma" or "Poor mans Soma" as my friend calls it. It's outshined by the Soma in almost every way. 

Grakata:                      Soma: 

Impact:4                      Impact:1
Puncture:3                  Puncture:4
Slash:2                       slash:5
Accuracy:28.6            Accuracy:28.6
Fire rate:20.0             Fire Rate:15.0
Critical:2.0X/ 25%       Critical:3.0x/30%
Satus:20%                  Status:7.0%

Magazine:60               Magazine:100
Reload:2.4 seconds.   Reload:3.0

Now onto why this is such  big deal and why the Grakata shouldn't be a primary. 

1.The grakata's firerate drastically lowers the accuracy of the weapon while having a decent kick, forcing people to use burst fire if they're not used to it.

2. These weapons pretty much do the same job, only issue is Grakata is CQB and Soma has range without much fall out.

3. Damage wise, they're the same weapon Soma literally having 10 combined damage and the Grakata having 9. 

4.Reload speed is well... practically half a second. Seriously.

5. the only thing separating these two beasts are status chances and magazine size. They both do  practically the same damage if modded full crit and damage ( IE serration, respective damage amps and heavy cal) the only issue is that why would you ever build a Grakata if you have access to a Soma aside from mastery points

6.Accuracy tables, the Soma is actually alot more accurate than the Grakata because of it's spool up and controllable recoil with persistent fire. 

7. My main point, Grakata should be moved to Secondary because it's so harshly outshined by a handful of Primaries. (Seriously, if two Tenno ran at each other from across a room, lets say as big as the void defense room from  the entrance to the pod, with any unmodded rifle and umodded grakata and only be allowed to hold down the firebutton and W, while having only 100 shields and 100 hp, the guy with the grakata would probably never hit a single shot before the Tenno using it gets downed.

 

 

Either buff it, change it around towards it can be a secondary or nerf Soma.

I'm open to arguments, points or something I missed, this is a logic based argument after all. 

Next, I'm going to attempt to persuade people to see that the mk-1 should be buffed...Send halp.-Pometheus.

[bobafetthotmail]

+1 to the idea.

[bejuizb]

smg secondary....I thought Vipers were just that lol

[taiiat]

i actually prefer Grakata over Soma in every single aspect of the weapon, thank you very much.

 

Critical Delay and Grakata are just made for each other.

the Utility Grakata has makes it superior to Soma. or any other gun for that matter. Utility isn't affected by enemy scaling. damage output is. this doesn't matter when you're fighting lv15 enemies all day, but lv100's(starts earlier than that but whatever), Utility breaks ahead.

 

 

but i don't see a reason for Grakata to be a Secondary. for one, it's not OP enough to be a Secondary. -_-

as we all know that Warframe dictates law that Secondaries must outperform Primaries.

 

 

besides, the combination of recent 'bugs' with Crits combined with how Soma operates is the only reason of why it blows everything out of the water anyways.

 

--------------------

 

by the by, a weapon being a Sub Machine Gun does not make it a secondary.... it is still a 'Primary' weapon in most situations.

Police forces use SMG's as Primary weapons all the time, interchangeably with Rifles. SMG's are more compact, and designed more for closer quarters fighting, whilst Rifles aid with reaching out to longer distances.

 

but other than that, they're effectively the same classes of weapons. an Assault Rifle and a Sub Machine Gun only really differ in caliber and build size, their purpose, operation, and end result is nearly identical. the biggest difference between them, is that SMG's often have a higher rate of fire Receiver to compensate for the lower output of the more compact cartridge.

[ValhaHazred]

-1. I think it works very well as a primary, and making it a secondary would dramatically limit its ammo.

[Histori]

Yes Dual Grakata.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

5. the only thing separating these two beasts are status chances and magazine size.

Status chance is seriously underrated. A 20% status chance on a gun that fires like a grakata is, I'd argue, superior to a Soma with the right loadout.

That's one out of five shots proccing, after all.

[Letter13]

Latron.

 

One Grakata!

 

No, Latron.

 

Twooo Grakata!

[shut]

Grakata shouldn't be a secondary simply because of its physical design and size. If Grakata is made a secondary, then Ignis (which is a modified Grakata) should be made secondary as well. That, of course, would be ridiculous.

 

I say that Grakata just needs maybe a small buff or two, although, really, it's quite a solid low-tier weapon as it currently is.

[Brahmastra]

If you ask me it's just an ordinary lower level crit weapon. You know so starting players can get a taste of every type of weapon.

But the higher impact and status make it really interesting for a level 0 weapon.

If you look at it this way, Soma needs a buff for being level 6.

[ValhaHazred]

Yes Dual Grakata.

 

Nothing saying they can't make dual primaries, they just haven't yet.

 

Status chance is seriously underrated. A 20% status chance on a gun that fires like a grakata is, I'd argue, superior to a Soma with the right loadout.

That's one out of five shots proccing, after all.

So much this. A blast Grakata means the enemy doesn't get to stand up.

[Kato-san]

Grakata is good. What makes you think its bad? Set it up with a crit build and forma and its better then most primary weapons.

Edited December 28, 2013 by MindlessWar

[taiiat]

If you look at it this way, Soma needs a buff for being level 6.

i would drastically disagree. since 30 Mastery Ranks are planned, for the effectiveness Soma has, i would suggest Soma to have a Mastery Rank requirement of atleast 20. not 6.

[Redmage107]

Mastery tier 0 vs 6. There ARE weapons legitimately supposed to be better dude, otherwise we'd all be bopping around with your MK1 Braton. Let's discuss the counter arguments to your major points.

 

1.People burst fire the Soma too, I've never seen anyone just unload at a range with a thing

2.Grakata does CQB better and most people run heavy caliber by your own admission

3.The Grakata loses in crit chance and crit damage, and you don't get access to a Soma until rank 6. You functionally lose

4.Reload speed for the Soma is about 3 without reload canceling, so it loses there to the uneducated player and the Grakata will always have more stable ammo economy.

5.Parroting your point twice does not make it more valid. Crit damage and crit chance gives the edge to the Soma

6.Granted, but by your own admission it's a CQB weapon and most people run a heavy caliber that's a little less viable.

7. This....proves just about nothing dude. Most Primaries are dominated by secondaries, and most T0 primaries are dominated by T2 and above primaries, what's your point?

[Histori]

 

Nothing saying they can't make dual primaries, they just haven't yet.

 

Ok.

But it will be fun if they make this.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Nothing saying they can't make dual primaries, they just haven't yet.

My Rhino would love an Akgorgon. It would be glorious.

[Kato-san]

Grakata 4th best dps automatic rifle in game right now. Tested my self. 

All though I assuming the OP does not understand DE wants higher rank req weapons to be stronger then lower rank.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/147812-dps-results-of-top-12-automatic-rifles-more/

Edited December 28, 2013 by MindlessWar

[Arlayn]

We have Vipers that fulfill this role. The Grakata makes a great primary weapon. Infact I love it right now in damage 2.0 it works like a dream!

[SlightVect]

Hello, sorry for me not being attentive to this thread. I apologize for it, now onto the comments and counter arguments

 

smg secondary....I thought Vipers were just that lol

If you want to get technical, The Viper and Furis weapons are Machine pistols, not exactly the SMG that the Grakata is.

 

-1. I think it works very well as a primary, and making it a secondary would dramatically limit its ammo.

I did suggest it be changed to better fit that role, humor me and give me some suggestions, eh?

 

Grakata is good. What makes you think its bad? Set it up with a crit build and forma and its better then most primary weapons.

Never said it was bad, no clue where you got that assumption.

 

Mastery tier 0 vs 6. There ARE weapons legitimately supposed to be better dude, otherwise we'd all be bopping around with your MK1 Braton. Let's discuss the counter arguments to your major points.

 

1.People burst fire the Soma too, I've never seen anyone just unload at a range with a thing

2.Grakata does CQB better and most people run heavy caliber by your own admission

3.The Grakata loses in crit chance and crit damage, and you don't get access to a Soma until rank 6. You functionally lose

4.Reload speed for the Soma is about 3 without reload canceling, so it loses there to the uneducated player and the Grakata will always have more stable ammo economy.

5.Parroting your point twice does not make it more valid. Crit damage and crit chance gives the edge to the Soma

6.Granted, but by your own admission it's a CQB weapon and most people run a heavy caliber that's a little less viable.

7. This....proves just about nothing dude. Most Primaries are dominated by secondaries, and most T0 primaries are dominated by T2 and above primaries, what's your point?

It doesn't have to prove anything, that's up to the mind and ideology of the one viewing the post.  I merely suggested that the Grakata be atleast changed around slightly other than being the little baby brother of the soma.

Your points are valid and I respect that, however I stand my ground and will continue to firmly believe that the Grakata is nothing more than the Shadow of a Soma. Though I love the grakata to death, I honestly feel it's outclassed by the Soma. It takes longer to unlock, yes. But should you get a new gun and never look back at the old one? I personally look at the Mk-1 and Lato and cringe slightly at how, well, I wanna say they're legitimately bad but I haven't toyed around with them in forever.

Anyways, I respect your views and opinions while being grateful for them

 

Any other ideas? I'm open to them.

 

 

 

 

Latron.

 

One Grakata!

 

No, Latron.

 

Twooo Grakata!

 

 

My Rhino would love an Akgorgon. It would be glorious.

I love the warframe community at times, made my day with this. Thank you.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Pometheus

[FrankJaeger-Grayfox-]

dual primary's uh?? so.... why not dual ogris?

...or maybe I'm just exaggerating a bit

[Cwierz]

Well, being someone who loves the Cestra to death because of it's design and reload animation (Seriously, put reload speed on that, looks like a bartender kinda.)  The Grakata is in a really odd spot if you ask me, it's an obvious SMG style weapon yet we put it as a Rifle. It may just be me but it just doesn't sit right me, why does every secondary HAVE to be a pistol? Why can't there be SMG's? I mean sure, we have hand cannons in the form of the Brakk, traditional Deagles in the form of the Lex and Good ol' revolvers in the form of Vasto and Magnus. But what about the black sheep weapons?

Weapons such as the Cestra, Grakata and a few more should be moved around, still don't agree with me? Well, let me put some numbers down for you loyalists. 

 

Let's start from the top, base damage. The Grakata is literally called "the noobs Soma" or "Poor mans Soma" as my friend calls it. It's outshined by the Soma in almost every way. 

Grakata:                      Soma: 

Impact:4                      Impact:1

Puncture:3                  Puncture:4

Slash:2                       slash:5

Accuracy:28.6            Accuracy:28.6

Fire rate:20.0             Fire Rate:15.0

Critical:2.0X/ 25%       Critical:3.0x/30%

Satus:20%                  Status:7.0%

Magazine:60               Magazine:100

Reload:2.4 seconds.   Reload:3.0

Now onto why this is such  big deal and why the Grakata shouldn't be a primary. 

1.The grakata's firerate drastically lowers the accuracy of the weapon while having a decent kick, forcing people to use burst fire if they're not used to it.

2. These weapons pretty much do the same job, only issue is Grakata is CQB and Soma has range without much fall out.

3. Damage wise, they're the same weapon Soma literally having 10 combined damage and the Grakata having 9. 

4.Reload speed is well... practically half a second. Seriously.

5. the only thing separating these two beasts are status chances and magazine size. They both do  practically the same damage if modded full crit and damage ( IE serration, respective damage amps and heavy cal) the only issue is that why would you ever build a Grakata if you have access to a Soma aside from mastery points

6.Accuracy tables, the Soma is actually alot more accurate than the Grakata because of it's spool up and controllable recoil with persistent fire. 

7. My main point, Grakata should be moved to Secondary because it's so harshly outshined by a handful of Primaries. (Seriously, if two Tenno ran at each other from across a room, lets say as big as the void defense room from  the entrance to the pod, with any unmodded rifle and umodded grakata and only be allowed to hold down the firebutton and W, while having only 100 shields and 100 hp, the guy with the grakata would probably never hit a single shot before the Tenno using it gets downed.

 

 

Either buff it, change it around towards it can be a secondary or nerf Soma.

I'm open to arguments, points or something I missed, this is a logic based argument after all. 

Next, I'm going to attempt to persuade people to see that the mk-1 should be buffed...Send halp.-Pometheus.

Well, for newbies it ill be the best weapon they will have till they can get at least mastery 4. 

Surprisingly the sobek is very good.

[taiiat]

Surprisingly the sobek is very good.

not surprising to me. it's always been fantastic(after buff #2). far better than anyone lets on.

i wrote up a lot of math once explaining it, and people continued to dismiss it. Sobek was borderline broken in D1.0 actually, but ofc nobody would see that.

[Babalenong]

i felt very offended that grakata cannot be classed as a primary and should be gone to secondary, you sayin' grakata is bad?! oh my love you are offended once more with that beautiful 20% proc chance of yours

 

although im ok if it goes to secondary it means that i can rush through levels a lot faster with penta + grakata

[nintega]

In literally every shooting game, SMGs are Primary Weapons. Then there's machine pistols in the secondary slot.

 

Besides, as it is, Primary mods suit the Grakata much better. If the Grakata were a secondary, it'd be just like the Twin Vipers: a really nice, high DPS crit weapon, except the crit mods available to it are too weak to be viable. That's the main thing, the Grakata and Twin Vipers are too similar for them to be in the same weapon class.

 

And like said earlier in the thread, Critical Delay and Grakata were god damn made for each other.

[BETAOPTICS]

There is a difference between SMG's and machine pistols. Grakata is in the first category and such guns like Vipers are in the latter. Unlike the Vipers, the Grakata can not be shot single handedly due to it's size, weight and recoil. Just like in real life, even special forces don't run with SMG's as a secondary weapon. In a rare occasion maybe a PDW but even then rarely so and there is no need for PDW's in this game.

EDIT: Think of it like a modern day basic version of MP5, no one shoots it from a single hand because it is incredibly ineffective that way. MP5K was designed to do that but even it is pushing it so no, from that argument it does not work. Also where would you carry that gun as a secondary, remember it has to not to compromise agility if placed on the legs and if it would be in back, how could it fit while not conflicting with other weapons. Besides just like someone said, Ignis also should then be a secondary and that makes no sense.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BETAOPTICS