Пополнение раздела тактик - Форум Warhammer Архив форума Архив

[spoiler]Ork Strengths

Orks have two real opportunities to win games against opponents of roughly equal skill. The first opportunity comes very early in the game, where the Big Mek and Shootas can cause some real problems and force opponents onto the back foot. The second opportunity comes early in tier 2 when Nobz and Wartrukks hit the field. Both periods of time however only have a very limited window in which you can actually gain any advantage and momentum, and, generally speaking, if you can't win at either of these two points in the game, then you probably aren't going to win at all.

General Ork strategies

The Shoota Rush

This used to be very powerful, and still is against an unsuspecting opponent. It constitutes building 2 sluggas (sometimes even only 1 slugga) for capping, a boyz hut, 1 banner, then shoota, BM, shoota, or shoota, shoota, BM and sending the shootas in to start harrassing as soon as they pop out. If executed right you can have your opponent in a world of trouble, but know when to back off. If you think you may be getting the upper hand on the opponent, it may be worth researching the shooty upgrades while you continue to pump out shootas or tech to something better. Keep in mind though that many players have cottoned onto this strategy now and it's become somewhat of a one-trick pony, as it can indeed be fought off by opponents who know what they are doing, especially on a larger map. Use it sparingly.

Generator Tech

This is a bit of a variation on the shoota rush. Instead of throwing down that early banner, replace it with a generator. You'll still have 1 shoota squad and your BM to do some harrassing damage with, and if worse comes to worse you can use your sluggas as well. The advantage of doing this is being able to upgrade your LP's earlier than usual and trying to get some kind of economic advantage rolling. The disadvantage is that your chances of outright winning the game in tier 1 slip to almost zero. This strategy works better on some maps than on others.

Double Generator Tech (suggested by Slow_Runner)

The double generator tech should only be used on fairly large maps as it leave you very vulnerable to any kind of early attack. It's exactly as the name suggests, build two generators off the bat and start stockpiling that power so you can upgrade those LP's as soon as possible and really start econ booming. Pick the time and place to do this though, not only does it leave you vulnerable early but also puts you behind in tech, so you need to make the most of it.

Stormboy Tech

A very risky venture, but has the possibility of catching the unwary opponent off-guard. This involves throwing three banners down in quick succession once the boyz hut is up to start building stormboyz, and soon after, the Pile 'o Gunz needs to be built to get those nob leaders on the squads and to research the choppy upgrade. This will leave you very open to attack while doing so, and the reward isn't that great unless you seriously manage to put some hurt on the opponent's economy. Not the build that is most recommended.

Nob Tech

This strategy is quite a bit safer than the Stormboy tech, as it gives you just that little bit more time to get your defenses straightened out. This is often used in conjunction with a good shoota and Big Mek harrass. While you have your opponent busy, get those 4 banners and PoG built, but don't forget to get your economy rolling too...it takes a lot of moolah to keep reinforcing those nobz. Get the armour and choppy upgrades as soon as possible as well.

Once the Nobz are on the field you have two options. You can either put an extra banner down to get access to your Mega-Armoured Nobz, or save a little and get your mek shop up. Ultimately you'll eventually want to do both, but which one you choose to do first depends on the game situation and how the battles are flowing.

It's vitally important with the Nob tech strategy though that you keep your opponent under pressure early. If you just sit there and tech to Nobz without doing anything to worry your opponent, I can guarantee you they will be more than ready for you when you decide to attack.

3 Slugga Build (Suggested by Chris)

This is kind of risky and shouldn't be attempted on all maps. Build your 2nd grot squad first, have 1 grot build the boyz hut then the other builds a gen, queue 3 sluggas, get the mek and then attempt to harass as best you can killing builders/cappers/taking down a point etc. While you're harassing you should be able to afford to upgrade 1 or 2 LPs which gives you a nice fall back as long as you've saved your mek teleport. It's very important not to suicide your mek or sluggas because the upgraded LPs wont hold up to anything on their own. Get your pile o' guns up, keep prodding and poking your opponent if possible and queue up those banners until you can get nobz, plus don't forget to build another gen somewhere along the way. Once your nobz come out push and push HARD, get a 2nd one ASAP then lay down another banner and get MANZ but remember upgrades!

Race Specific Ork Strategies

Orks vs Space Marines

To be perfectly blunt, Orks can't compete with Space Marines once the SM player hits tier 2 and the bionics upgrades kick in with the Chaplain and vehicles. So to beat a Space Marine player, you need to hit them hard, and hit them fast. Get those shootas out as fast as possible and try to bring down those scouts and try to put a dent in their economy. If the SM player has his Force Commander out early, try and target him with your shootas while your BM pounds at him. The best time to take the FC out is early in the game. Not only is he expensive to replace, but once the SM hits tier 2 he becomes a monster and you don't want that early investment on their part paying off like that. Use any stray sluggas to tie up any tac squads the SM player might build. If you can somehow get to tier 2 with Nobz and MANZ before the SM player can get his uber tier 2 weapons to the field, you'll go a long way to winning. Just don't fall into the trap of chasing him around all day while his tac squads are all being equipped with plasma and heavy bolters because it'll come back to bite you hard.

The Scout Rush

The scout rush is probably the easiest of the SM strats you can expect from an ork's perspective. Clever placement of your early buildings near your strat points will put a stop to it most of the time. If you see 2-3 reinforced scout squads coming at you, you know the scout rush is on. This build doesn't involve a barracks until very late though, so grot infiltration is vital. Get that researched, build and repair those LP's as fast as possible, get your BM out as well as a good amount of shootas, and then push into the SM's base for the win.

The Assault Marine Mass

Uh oh. If an SM player decides to mass ASM's at you, you're going to have a very difficult time bringing him down. The best strategy is to mass him back with shootas, but remember to keep those sluggas capping points. If you can, try to lure him into the fire of some of your buildings guns to get just that little bit of an advantage. You're going to need to micro your shootas and BM around like crazy while you madly attempt to tech to Nobz before he reaches tier 2 and critical mass of ASM's. If he gets to tier 2 before you do, it's GG. Try and dent his economy if you can whenever the opportunity presents itself. Watch out for the ASM's melta bombs...5 of them will bring down your HQ instantly.

Orks vs Chaos

As soon as your opponent draws Chaos, you are fighting an uphill battle as orks. Chaos are extremely difficult to take down in any tier, but the best bet is definately tier 1 and very early tier 2. Once tier 2 reaches a certain point you are on the downward spiral, and it's nigh impossible to win once Chaos hits tier 3. Don't build too many shootas against a Chaos player...Chaos vs orks will very often come down to a teching race...can orks get to nobz first or can Chaos get to berzerkers first? You are going to need to find a way to slow down the Chao's player's teching enough for you to get those Nobz out, complete with armour and choppy upgrades, and preferably with MANZ along in tow to have any chance of beating a Chaos player. 90% of Chaos players will open with a Raptor harrass. There really isn't anything much to worry about here as Orks, your BM should be more than capable of handling the raptors by himself, just don't forget to LP your points as soon as possible to prevent them decapping you. Chaos players will rarely build more than one squad of raptors against orks, but they are often followed by something much nastier.

Don't worry too much about vehicles against Chaos as a general rule...by the time your vehicles arrive your opponent will probably have a couple of horror squads already queued up in his sacrificial circle just waiting to be teleported onto the battlefield. Let your nobz and MANZ do most of the work and use trukks, traks and Kans as support if you can afford them.

Orks have no answer to Chaos tier 3, so if the game ever reaches that point, it's all over. Massed Predators are also next to impossible for orks to take down.

Aspiring Champion Tech

Oh how I loathe this strategy. It's so easy to do and extremely powerful. This involves the Chaos player building several cultist squads and his Chaos Lord, usually with a squad or two of CSM's along for the ride. The armoury and a power gen are built as soon as the barracks is finished, then power swords and plasma pistols are researched. Aspiring Champions are put in to the cultist and CSM squads, and often grenades and heavy bolters are added. If you see a Chaos player doing this build, you MUST take him down before he reaches critical mass. If the Chaos player has taken this route it means he is delaying his tier 2, so feel free to combine shootas with stormboyz and your BM. Tie them up at much as possible - the less those plasma pistols are firing the better. You are going to need to finely balance your troop production with your tech, because ultimately you'll need those nobz and maybe vehicles to finish the job.

Fast Berserker Tech

This strategy is almost impossible to stop on certain maps, which is completely stupid if you ask me. Anyway, if a Chaos player is doing this, he has completely forgone tier 1 apart from a couple of capping cultist squads and is going STRAIGHT for tier 2. I mean he builds a barracks, power gen and armoury, then kicks off his tier 2 research. Once that's complete the berzerkers arrive, usually with the sorceror in tow and it's usually downhill from there if you are orks. If you see a Chaos player with only a couple of cultist squads, it's a dead giveaway that he's going for the fast berserker tech. The most important thing to target here, I believe, is his barracks. You've got no chance of taking the HQ down that early in the game so there's no way you can interrupt his tech once it's started. There's also no point targetting his economy, it wastes time and he's probably already got enough saved up for his zerks. Hit him hard and you should bring that barracks down before the zerks show up, THEN worry about bringing his econ down. Don't miss the opportunity to take cultists and heretics down as well - he can't rebuild them while his tier 2 tech is in progress.

The other alternative to this is to fast tech yourself, get to nobz as fast as possible and meet him head on. Remember your armour and choppy upgrades - Nobz will lose to zerks without them. I wouldn't recommend taking this option though, as without harrassment, the Chaos player WILL out-tech you.

Orks vs Imperial Guard

I believe Imperial Guard to be Ork's most balanced matchup, although some other players may disagree. However, like SM and Chaos, there comes a point in late tier 2-tier 3 where orks simply cannot win against IG, so again, you need to hit them as hard as you can at the earliest possible time.

The advantage to playing against IG is that you almost always know what to expect. 2, maybe 3 guardsmen squads with Commissars attached and the Command Squad will try to hit you early 99% of the time. Your BM and some shootas should keep them busy for a while...try luring them into your buildings guns for some extra fire support. An upgraded banner or two and an LP2 work wonders here. If you can, target the command squad and get grot infiltration happening...once the CS is down you can repair those firing buildings until the cows come home. However this isn't enough. While all this is going on, you're going to need to get three banners plus your PoG up, and start pumping out Stormboyz, preferably with Nob leaders. Once the IG player starts equipping his guardsmen with grenades, you are in real trouble unless you have stormboyz. Get the armour and choppy upgrades and constantly jump those Stormboyz into the middle of the guardsmen squads, constantly forcing retreats and killing a few. Don't be afraid to retreat yourself if things are starting to look hairy. You'll need to be very patient when fighting IG, don't tackle their base head on until you have the heavier hitting stuff, although don't miss the opportunity to do some damage to their economy. Keep the Stormboyz flowing while you tech to either Tankbustas or vehicles to fight the IG vehicles that are on their way. Only build Nobz if you can afford them, although MANZ aren't a bad idea. If you can get some sufficient AV out before enough IG vehicles show up, you have the game in the bag and you can push for victory. Remember IG don't have much of an answer against Killa Kans so if you have the opportunity to build them don't hesitate.

Again don't let this get to tier 3 or you're a goner.

Whatever you do, don't let an IG player cap a point near your base early in the game. Once that LP goes up it'll normally be followed by an infantry command or tactica control and there's no way you'll penetrate that in tier 1 and it'll be all downhill from there.

Orks vs Eldar

Eldar is probably Ork's most difficult matchup. Fleet of Foot Reapers will mince sluggas and shootas, as will banshees. The Farseer will also cause you a world of hurt, especially in tier 1. You need to make as much use out of your BM as possible, Try tying up those reapers with sluggas so they aren't firing very much. Try constantly being on the move away from banshees while your shootas and building guns are spraying fire everywhere. One way or the other, you are going to need to seriously outplay an Eldar opponent right from the word go to beat them as Orks.

The Farseer is a big problem for orks in tier 1. Her spells can turn the game in an instant. If you can, try and knock her out if you get the opportunity, don't let her get away if you have her right down in the red. She's expensive to replace in tier 1 and the longer she stays alive the more likely Eldar are going to win.

Because of Fleet of Foot, Eldar are probably the hardest of the races to hit early and do any real damage to. However, you are going to need to do as much damage as you can in tier 1 because once Eldar reaches tier 2, and vehicles, Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons enter the battlefield, you're in real trouble. When you hit them, target their power. Eldar tech is very heavy on power and if you can slow that down somewhat, you've got a good chance of beating them to tier 2 and getting enough troops out to tackle the heavy hitting guys Eldar can bring forward. Once enough Warp Spiders and Wraithlords are around there isn't much you can do to stop the Juggernaut, so you've got to take them out before it reaches that point.

2-3 Wraithlords with Brightlance upgrades, or a couple of squads of Fire Dragons will level an Ork base ridiculously fast, so watch out for Eldar players that exploit this. Sluggas or Stormboyz are perfect for tying up FD's with while they are blasted by the building guns, although for Wraithlords you'll definately need some AV around. You can breathe a little easy that you'll almost never see Fire Prisms in a 1v1, as Eldar's tier 3 is just as bad as Ork's is. Eldar certainly don't need FP's to beat Orks though.

An Eldar that uses a conventional build (2-3 guardians, farseer, either reapers or banshees early) is extremely tough for Orks to beat. Ironically, it's when the Eldar strays from the norm that things swing in favour of the orks somewhat.

Fast Vehicle Tech

I love it when Eldar goes for fast vehicles, it's the best chance I have at beating them. If you see only 1 or 2 guardian squads running around, with no farseer on a map with a thermal point, it's a pretty safe bet that the eldar is going for fast vehicles. As soon as you realise this, try and slow down the production of that soul shrine while you madly tech to tankbustas. The TB's should easily handle any Falcons that pop out, and you are going to need to take down any source of power the Eldar has and fast. Warp Spiders will normally follow the vehicles, but by then, your nobz should be well on their way and should take care of the WS before they do any real damage. Take down the support portal and the whole strategy has fallen flat on it's face.

Orks vs Orks

This is actually quite a difficult matchup. It's a guessing game of sorts...will my opponent tech to vehicles? Nobz? MANZ? Will he try out-massing me?

What you do against another ork player depends on the game situation. One of the best options is to fast tech to Wartraks and then drive them into the opponent's base to take their banners down. Another option is to try and get more nobz than your opponent does faster. You may even want to think about going for tier 3 as the Warboss and docs can swing the tide of battle in your favour. MANZ are almost mandatory against other orks as they are almost impervious to building guns. Armour upgrades, choppy upgrades, dakka upgrades, upgrade anything you can to give you just that little bit more of an edge in battle. Remember he's got exactly what you have. Whatever you do, don't waste a lot of resources on tier 1 troops, those building guns hurt and shootas are a waste of resources if you can't do any real damage with them.

Just remember it's not always the best idea to tech. While teching to vehicles is a good idea, remember TB's are quite good at bringing ork vehicles down and if your opponent has enough of them that will be a lot of money wasted on your part.[/spoiler]

или хотябы отсюда

Но скорей всего этого не произойдет
Если я ошибаюсь то,Все орки форума будут благодарны

Добавлено (2008-12-30, 4:09:03)
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Зачем нам что-то переводить, когда у нас есть свои, отечественные отцы??

Посмотри тут
[spoiler]Against Imperial Guard:

Imperial Guard, your brethren, sometimes go astray. You will have to commit fratracide and eridicate the traitors from the Imperium!!!
Anti-Infantry- Most Imperial Guard will be infantry heavy all the way through their tech process. The hellhound is your primary anti-infantry platform, along with the grenade upgrade early in your tech tree. Later plasma both in Kasyrkin and your Infantry squads can be good infantry counters. Ogryns can always be used to tie up enemy infantry into close combat.
Infantry- Light- Grenades
Kasyrkin- Heavy- Plasma
Ogryns- Heavy- Plasma
Anti-Vehicle- Early your only anti-vehicle option is the Sentinal. Sentinals work better in groups, but infantry can take them down quickly, so you will need anti-infantry support for your walkers. Later the Leman Russ will be your primary anti-vehicle platform.

Against Chaos:

These, the most dark and evil traitors to the Space Marines, deserve your extra special attention. And when I say special attention I mean KILLIN'.
Anti-Infantry- Chaos has a lot, and I do mean A LOT of nasty infantry that will chew you up in close combat. Possessed Chaos Space Marines should be feared, as they will outrun you and can do massive damage to your buildings. Against PSMs or Berserkers you will need to keep your squads seperated so they aren't all tied up in close combat, or load up your infantry commands for some extra protection.
CSM- Heavy- Plasma (and grenades for disruption)
Khorne Beserkers- Heavy- Plasma
Cultists- Light- grenades
Demons- Plasma
Anti-Vehicle- Here come the defilers and chaos preds. You should be on the same tech level as these guys when they come out against you, and should be able to counter with Sentinals as you continue to tech up. Ogryns also do a decent amount of damage against vehicles while you wait for the Lemans to come out.

Against Space Marines:

Space Marines will always be a tough match-up for Imperial Guard.
Anti-Infantry- You will have to kill him with numbers, so make sure your squads are full up, fully upgraded to plasma (because SM is all heavy infantry), still have some grenade troops for disruption, and have commissars.
Space Marines- Heavy- Plasma and Grenades for Disruption.
Scouts- Light- Grenades
Terminators- Heavy- Plasma
Anti-Vehicle- Sentinals until you can get Leman Russes.
Space Marines can and will drop in your base, so make sure you have some stealth detectors roaming your backfield. Any of the Command squad units are stealth detectors (priest, psycher, and commissar) plus your General.
You should have no trouble against Scout rush as your infantry will outnumber him.

Against Eldar:

Eldar and Imperial Guard are surprisingly similiar. Eldar is an infantry heavy race, but they also have some quite effective vehicles.
Anti-infantry- You will have to kill him with numbers, make sure your squads are full up, and stick with a mix of grenades and plasma (grenades disrupt Dark Reapers due to the set up time of their weapons). Hellhounds are also a good choice.
All eldar infantry except Reapers are Light- grenades.
Warp Spiders- Heavy- Plasma and Grenades.
Anti-Vehicle- Sentinals until you can get Leman Russes. Ogryns are good against massed brightlances.

Against Ork:

Ork is another hard matchup you will face, as your squads are primarily ranged, and he is close combat.
Anti-Infantry- Hellhounds and keep your squads in buildings.
Anti-Vehicle- Sentinals until you can get Leman Russes.
I've heard that plasma kills everything orky, but in all honesty choppas maybe better countered with grenades. Don't let one ork cc squad tie up more than one of your infantry squads- keep some distance between your squads! Ogryns are your cc unit, but they won't stand up to armored nobs very well without vehicle support. You can outrush and "outorky" orks by staying on the offensive. I would keep your squads in F2 so they won't be pulled into engagements as easily...

Now it is time to discuss BUILD ORDERS.

Build orders are different for every map, and against every enemy. You will be fighting Orks, who like to fight in close combat; You will be fighting Eldar which like to shoot you full of holes. EACH ENEMY takes a different approach and a different build order. Some you will want to tech fast, some you will want to max out your /10 first. Please see the rule of 10 from NLL (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=66654) (later grotts for brains, I'm still talking to you about build orders!) OK, well I can't leave you like that, so try these for openers:

Cue builder, troop, troop, builder.
First builder builds Infantry Command next to your req point that you want to defend and looks like will be your main defense point into your base.
Troop 1 to nearest req. point
Troop 2 to next req. point
Second builder starts power gen. First builder joins him at that gen, then both builders go to the first req. point and caps it with a Listening Point.
Infantry Command builds Commander.

or Fast Tech build:

Cue builder, builder, troop, troop.

First and second builders make your infantry command and then your first gen.
Troop 1 to nearest req. point
Troop 2 to next req. point
Builders cap 1 or 2 points (with Listening Points) then start on Tactica
Upgrade Field Commande to Teir 1
Build Mech Center...

or Infantry Rush:

Cue troop, troop, troop, builder, troop

First builder builds infantry command, then caps first point
Troop 1 to nearest req. point
Troop 2 to enemy's req. point
Infantry command builds commander
Troop 3 to enemy's req. point
Builder 2 caps point
Troop 4 to engagement that should be in progress.

Keep Troop 1 capping your close points, and use your other troops to harrass the enemy. Waypoint your infantry command to the point of engagement, and keep spewing out squads. Builders cap points with LPs, and build a gen when all of the close points are capped. Emphasis is on winning that first engagement and taking down as many of the enemy's points as possible.

or IG Melee Rush:

Build a Infantry Command
Queue Guard, Guard, Techpriest, Guard on your Field Command.
Queue Guard, Command Squad on your Infantry Command.
Build 2 Listening Posts
Build a Plasma Generator
Bring out Commissars as soon as you are able, and attach them to three of your Guard Squads. Reinforce these guard squads up to max as soon as you can.

Now..set your guardsmen to Melee, and have at the enemy. Guard are surprisingly good at melee when backed up by Commissars and the Command Squad.

Use Priests or Sanctioned Psykers in your command squad as soon as you get the power.

Get a Tactica when possible and the Guardsmen armor upgrade, as well as sergeants.

You can drop one of the guard squads from the build if you want, I just have it for capping.

This is the build order I am currently using:

Cue Builder, Infantry, Infantry
First builder to build infantry command.
Second builder helps complete infantry command.
Both builders build plasma generator.
First infantry to req point closest to infantry command.
Second infantry to next req point.
Infantry command cues General, Infantry.
Build LP on first req point.
Field HQ cues Commissar (waypoint him to where you think your squad will end up).
Build Tactica.
Build Plasma.
Upgrade Field HQ.[/spoiler]

Добавлено (2008-12-31, 12:20:01)
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Добавлено (2008-12-31, 12:44:11)
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Добавлено (2008-12-31, 12:47:04)
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Придумал я знаю сайт где выкладывают лучшие реплеи сплая каждую неделю ,их от туда можно брать и размещать на сайте

Раздел умер именно потому что его никто не обновлял. Репки всегда в цене, так как сайт у нас напрямую связан с DoW. И пусть здесь больше нет отцов - новички всегда ищут репы опытных игроков.
ДоВ2 выйдет (обещают) через 2 месяца. Игра будет абсолютно сырой и не пристрелянной. Ориентируясь на скорость выпуска патчей к СС, я думаю, что полноценный патч/дополнение, тестированный уже не реликами, а самими топами СС выйдет примерно к лету (в лучшем случае). Там уже будет более-менее баланс. До сего же момента - СС в плане тактической игры в приоритете. ДоВ2 лишь для фана.
Конечно, WGL будет ориентироваться на топовые кланы России (USSR, IMS, RuW). Куда они, туда и мы. Прошел слух что на ESL уже заявлены игры на ДоВ2... в любом случае - СС пока живет и если на наш сайт будут поступать свежие репы хороших игроков - нам это только в +
Гайды и тактики тоже нужны - новички постоянно пребывают.
Насчет репок: я могу этим легко заняться, так как каждый день просматриваю раздел репок на варпруннере, знаю всех буквально в лицо и смотрю игры. Ориентируясь на комменты и лично просматривая репы - я могу кидать сюда приличные игры, которые будет не стыдно посмотреть. Также у меня есть еще парочка сайтов, куда я регулярно заглядываю и смотрю репки - там тоже хорошие игры попадаются + наши собственные, где полно приличных реплеев. Один Маверик чего стоит, который в топ3 Орк в мире.
По поводу тактик. Постараюсь вытянуть из своих как можно больше инфы + есть друзья из USSR, которые могут помочь с написанием гайдов. Я и Леман можем написать приличную статью по ИГ. Оба эти раздела реально оживить и сделать полезными.
Неизвестно столько будет длиться канитель с полноценным переходом с ДоВ на СС на профессиональным уровне, но уверен - времени еще достаточно. WGL готов заменить IT на тактическом поприще.

Добавлено (2008-12-31, 1:21:31)
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Ну это понятно. Мы пришли к общему согласию и наметили план развития - уже хорошо.